Ianto Jones

[ericadawn16]

This article wants to know why Ianto Jones is so popular and why Gwen isn't:
http://nyrhalahotep.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/torchwood-the-rise-of-ianto-jones/

I wrote this in response:
Ianto Jones was an everyman. Like Donna, he had been a temp, working a bunch of jobs and never sticking with one for long. He didn’t get high marks in school. However, he found himself in Torchwood and he found love, that’s all most of us want out of life: to feel we’re wanted and to have someone to share that with. When he ranted about no one caring about him in “Cyberwoman”, that’s what so many of us had wanted to do at our jobs but we never had the guts. We were able to cheer at his successes: going out on cases, having Jack acknowledge his feelings, saving the day like if he can do that…so can we.

He also happened to be gay, a rarity on tv and a more relatable position than Jack’s omnisexuality.

We loved Tosh and Owen, but when they died, we could go…well, at least we still have Ianto. We put all those remaining egg’s in Mr. Jones’ basket. All that grief and disappointment were able to be deferred because we still had him…and then we didn’t and it all came out. All that extra grief came out because not only did he die but Tosh and Owen were barely mentioned which felt weird because if you lose your colleagues like that, don’t you remember them more than that? Even as time passes, don’t you remember them? Yes, the Doctor Who episode addressed the matter more because it was closer to their deaths but that felt a little cheap to assume everyone had seen that episode and moved on. Plus, compare that with the Doctor Who episode with Jack that doesn’t bother to address why he’s broken-hearted and drinking in an alien bar even though it was established in The Stolen Earth that Jack was in an exclusive relationship with Ianto Jones. Wouldn’t those who only watch Dr Who be confused? Likewise, those who only watch Torchwood would have extra reason for claiming that Tosh and Owen were utterly forgotten quickly.

I also want to add that a Russel T Davies interview in the Torchwood magazine, Issue #17, Oct/Nov 2009, he said:
As a colleague of mine who worked on soap operas used to say: ‘You don’t rape Snow White.’ In other words, you shouldn’t push your central characters to the point where they become the walking wounded.

Isn’t that what Jack was by the end of CoE? How else would you describe how he was in The End of Time, Pt. 2? However, he does say this quote in reference to Gwen which is another reason why many do not like her…apparently, Davies feels she is the central character and not Jack.

Comments

[beckielric.livejournal.com]

I stopped watching Torchwood when I heard Ianto died. D= Jack and Ianto were what got me interested in the show in the first place.

Also I immediately disliked Gwen when she pulled that awful stunt where she admitted to her fiancee that she cheated on him...then told him the drink he just had was drugged with a pill that would make him forget she said that. Sorry, but that's just incredibly selfish. =\

And it seems like from what I've heard about later episodes, Gwen never has to deal with the consequences of her actions, leading me to believe she's kind of a canon Mary Sue. Not to mention a lot of official merch seemed to portray her and Jack as the official couple even though Jack was with Ianto, wtf. D=

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Except for Torchwood magazine which seemed to have a Janto cover every other issue...

[gypsylady.livejournal.com]

it was established in The Stolen Earth hat Jack was in an exclusive relationship with Ianto Jones.

It's been a long time since I've seen "The Stolen Earth," so I may just be a little befuddled (I'm also old, remember...) but how is it established? It's definitely hinted at but I recall it being subtle because DW is pre-watershed and they were very careful with it. I do have to say that I found that scene in "End of Time" disappointing because Jack was broken, not horny. Then again, my feelings towards Russell Tovey aren't as strong either way as many others' are and it could just be me...

And Ianto kind of tells his sister that he really isn't gay, in CoE. It's the infamous :it's him. It's just him" Then again, Clem's comment that Ianto "smells" gay seems to have set that up as questionable.

Personally, I like Gwen. Yeah, she gets away with stuff that no one else ever did, but I can see how without her the show wouldn't have the same impact. To me she exists as a counterpoint to all the other characters, which in some cases means she has really unlikeable qualities. But in "Something Borrowed" there is a moment where I came to realize she most likely has (off-screen) come completely clean to Rhys (Who is my favorite character in the show, mind you) so I continue to think she's a bit spoiled in a lot of ways, but I just got to love Rhys all the more because of it. But, again, that's just me.

[trektotorch.livejournal.com]

Ericadawn--your response is well written.

As for the exclusive relationship of Ianto and Jack being established in The Stolen Earth, I agree with gypsylady that it was never actual said. We inferred it from the conversation where Jack said he met "solider" in a bar and the look Ianto gave Jack. Jack quickly covered by saying that the meeting was strickly professional. We infer from that exchange that they were in an exclusive relationship at that point. I choose to believe that they were indeed.

As for Gwen--I don't dislike the character, but the character can be a little trying at times on the viewers nerves. RTD, I believe, has said that he actually wrote Torchwood as a vehicle for Eve Myles. RTD has said that she the greatest actress in Wales (or words to that effect). She is a good actress, but I wouldn't go that far in describing her. I saw her a couple weeks ago in a Masterpiece Contemory "Framed" and she was very good.

I, also, agree that Ianto never said that he was gay. He more than likely was bisexual. I thought in COE Espisode 5 his character was insulted when Andy said to Gwen when they were going to tell Ianto's sister of his death "Do they know he was gay". What did that have to do with informing your family that you were dead. I never understood why that line was even put in there.

ericadawn--I agree with you about the bar scene in DW where the Doctor pimps for Jack. Unless you watch both DW and Torchwood you would have not understood that scene.

Thanks for posting this, and I agree with most of what you wrote in your response.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

greatest actress in Wales, hmm...
I happen to like Catherine Zeta Jones, but maybe she doesn't count? I also quite like Ruth Jones. Framed was very good although she wasn't the star. It was more like a supporting role.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

I felt it was established in The Stolen Earth because if Jack and Ianto aren't exclusive, why is Ianto so upset that Jack met a soldier in a bar?

I like Russell Tovey, it just felt weird in the EoT context.

Yes, despite saying that he's not gay, everyone else says he is which could be social commentary but when a character has so little background as it is, to put social commentary on top of that is just confusing.

Plus, every gay guy I know had at least one girlfriend when they were young.

[canyon_deye.livejournal.com]

Nah, that's just the way TV-shows work. You can't really go angsting on about dead characters, because fans are already like, "BRING THEM BAAACK11!!"

Maybe they would be confused, but then again, I think it was done pretty subtly and could be interpreted in a lot of ways.

I never had a problem with Gwen: she's pretty right-minded and determined, and I just don't see where the hate parade comes from. Alright, she doesn't always make the best of choices, but she doesn't deserve all the hating she's constantly getting.

I also don't think anyone thinks Gwen is the central character. I believe Davies is just exploring Jack through Gwen, kind of. Just like so many times in Doctor Who the Doctor's mindsets are studied from the eyes of the companion.

[jackdavfan692.livejournal.com]

Great response, Erica =)! *Claps* And I agree with pretty much everything you said :). I've always known I liked Ianto, but I've never been able to articulate exactly why. Your response above just did that, though, so thanks 8)! The one thing I do have to disagree with, however, is that Ianto was portrayed as gay. I'm more of the mind that he was bisexual (which is hard in and of itself, possibly even more so than just being gay), but eventually found out that the person he truly loved put him at the opposite end of the pendulum swing, if you will. Even so, the fact that we saw an openly gay relationship on television and it WASN'T made a big deal of (until COE, that is B[) was truly revolutionary :].

As for my view of Gwen, I didn't like or dislike her. For most of the series, I just felt neutral about her. Around "Day 2" of COE, I think I went a little beyond that (e.g. actually kind of liked her), but even that may have just been due to the fact that she was playing off Rhys for most of the episode. I did think her brief monologue about why the Doctor sometimes doesn't show up to save humanity was good, though. Props to whoever was responsible for writing that episode :].

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

I always felt of Ianto as gay due to my personal experience. Every gay man I know had a girlfriend when they were young. Some even had sex with them so I just assumed he didn't realize or want to admit it until Jack came along.

[jackdavfan692.livejournal.com]

Hmmm..., maybe so. I never thought of that. You might be right :]. Unfortunately, we'll never know, since Gareth has moved on to other things, and characters RTD likely feels have long been dead and buried are probably the last thing he wants to talk about :/.

[geminia905.livejournal.com]

Just once it would be nice to find an article for those of us who don't particularly care for either character. *snort*

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Maybe in The Onion?