Day 29- How do you feel about the female characterization in the films?

[ericadawn16]

World Premiere of Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl 2003

Day 29- How do you feel about the female characterization in the films?

Well, that's complicated especially since it depends on how you interpret the films.

On the surface, it doesn't look good, does it?

Only about six females had speaking lines in the first three films: two only appeared in one film, two were whores and another was made into the villain.

Except that there's Elizabeth Swann...Disney can claim the series is about Jack Sparrow all it wants but the original trilogy revolved around Elizabeth. Elizabeth was the first face we saw and one of the last. Everything was about her journey...her Hero's Journey. Some have claimed her to be a Mary Sue. Her own creators call her a modern girl trapped in the past. However, let's take a look...

2.1.1 The Call to Adventure
Elizabeth finds a mysterious boy and more importantly, a medallion that she recognizes as belonging to a pirate. She already finds piracy "quite fascinating".

2.1.2 Refusal of the Call
However, instead of finding out why the boy has this medallion or what exactly it means, Elizabeth hides the medallion for years so that it becomes dusty. Instead, she acts the part of a dutiful governor's daughter.

2.1.3 Supernatural Aid
Although Elizabeth doesn't consciously realize it, she accepts the call as soon as she puts on the medallion and immediately receives a brand new dress from her father that will lead to meeting Jack Sparrow. Her father will also provide her with a gun, aid and information as the trilogy progresses. James also acts as a supernatural helper; providing her with clothes, aid and information.

2.1.4 The Crossing of the First Threshold
Elizabeth gets her first taste of this dangerous, supernatural world when she runs from Barbossa and discovers that the entire crew appears to be skeletons.

2.1.5 Belly of The Whale
Elizabeth has been to the cave on Isla de la Muerta once before without her consent and had to be rescued by Will. Now, with James' help, she is dressed in a new outfit of pants compared to her traditional dress that she has worn all along. However, against James' and her father's wishes, she escapes to willingly enter the cave on her own to rescue Will. She finally conquers her fears of the unknown and starts to become a new self-assured adult in the process.

2.2 Initiation

2.2.1 The Road of Trials
Liz is prevented in her task to marry Will by Beckett. She thought her Hero's Journey was over but it's only begun. Her first task is to find Jack and get his compass, but Jack won't give it up until she helps them find a chest. Then, once they find the chest, she will be tasked with keeping it safe...and that's not including her trials in the third film!

2.2.2 The Meeting With the Goddess
Elizabeth already has her God...Will...but on Isla de la Muerta, she is rewarded by being reunited with him.

2.2.3 Woman as Temptress
Even Elizabeth has Will, she's still tempted by others especially Jack Sparrow. It's shortly after her reunion with Will that she kisses Jack Sparrow. She claims it's in order to trick him into staying although he had already returned to the ship of his own accord. It's common with heroes that they are often wrong and make fatal mistakes along their journey, like Harry leading everyone to the Department of Mysteries because he thought Sirius was in trouble.

2.2.4 Atonement with the Father
Not only does Elizabeth have to help retrieve Jack Sparrow from the Land of the Dead, but she has to face him for what she's done. He does nothing to soothe her guilt. However, she also comes across her father who does give her reassurance that she is on the right path.

2.2.5 Apotheosis
Elizabeth has to come to terms with the death of her father: the loss of a home to go back to and now being an orphan. She has to fully accept her new adult role and responsibilities. It's a period of reflection where she's both pampered and molested by a Pirate Lord. Then, she's reunited with her remaining supernatural mentor, James Norrington. However, he sacrifices himself in order to help her and her newly acquired pirate crew to escape. The final tie to her childhood is severed and Elizabeth begins her mourning period in earnest: trading her elaborate outfit for black armor.

2.2.6 The Ultimate Boon
Elizabeth is secure in her new role. In fact, she is now a Pirate King and leading them into war. She also no longer feels any guilt over her previous killing of Jack Sparrow and trades him for Will's freedom. She and Will finally marry during battle.

2.3 Return

2.3.1 Refusal of the Return
Now, that she finally has Will as her husband, she does not want to leave him even though he is now tied to the supernatural world and she is meant for the regular one.

2.3.2 The Magic Flight
Jack is forced to literally fly away with her to save her life.

2.3.3 Rescue from Without
To help Elizabeth with her transition to the regular world, Will comes back and they have sex. Elizabeth is reassured that Will loves her no matter where he may be and that they will see each other again.

2.3.4 The Crossing of the Return Threshold
Elizabeth is further tied to the regular world by pregnancy: the final confirmation of her adulthood. However, it's not a simple case of finding someplace and settling down. Even her creators admit that there may be at least one more trip in store for her to the Land of the Dead.

2.3.5 Master of Two Worlds
Elizabeth is the master of two worlds. Not only has she been to the Land of the Dead and returned, more than once, but her husband ferried souls for ten years except now he has returned.

2.3.6 Freedom to Live
Elizabeth now has the knowledge that she has the freedom to be anything from Pirate King to mother. Her Hero's Journey is complete.

However, that left a hole for On Stranger Tides. They've added Angelica who I'm hoping will end up being awesome but it is disheartening to hear her described in terms like: "Blackbeard's daughter" or "Jack's ex" instead of her own terms as not defined by men.

Comments

[madkatstar-pir8.livejournal.com]

"Only about six females had speaking lines in the first three films: two only appeared in one film, two were whores..."
I like Scarlet and Giselle. I thought they were funny and cool, if not the brightest girls. I think it would have been nice for them to have played a somewhat larger role.

But yeah, I so agree about the series NOT being about Jack like Disney wants everyone to think. He was originally written to be a SECONDARY character to Elizabeth and Will. And Elizabeth really does get a lot more character development than Jack. It's Elizabeth's story and nothing will convince me otherwise.

And as for some people claiming she's a sue....pah. That's such an overused term anyway it doesn't even mean anything to me anymore. It's just a way for people to name-call female characters they don't like or have a few issues with now. I have a much bigger problem with people calling her a bitch for what she did at the end of DMC. Why so many people don't understand that it was a necessary move on her part I will never understand.

And as a side note...never seen that photo before. I love it!

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I've read several interviews with people involved in the films, including the writers, who have said that it was always Elizabeth's story and that she was the one that drove the narrative. And that, now, they were finally doing a film that was driven by Jack, which was a whole new ballgame. I can't wait!

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You didn't include her oppression by the Evil William, did you? Because that is what fandom taught me was the central theme of these movies. ;-)

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Yep. I wouldn't call her a bitch but if kept to a lighthearted manner, it can be fun to discuss Liz' actions. Since Jack had come back on his own, was he kiss and chaining even necessary? Jack hadn't been making a move for the boat. He was definitely dragging his feet about it.

On the other hand, maybe it was the extra motivation he needed.

Then, there's the fact that Liz didn't tell Will about the kiss or chaining but he'd seen the kiss. This is always a huge debate whether it's a real situation or not: Does a partner deserve to know absolutely everything you do, including small indiscretions?

I love the photos from the first premiere. Even though Orlando had done the first two premieres of LOTR by that point, all three have this sort of relaxed feel like they were just out together for a night on the town. Even their outfits are very different than what they would end up wearing to the next two.

Then, there's this particular photo where Orlando is obviously teasing Keira about something and Jack is incredibly amused by it all, wondering how it'll turn out. They had such great chemistry together.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

And that, now, they were finally doing a film that was driven by Jack, which was a whole new ballgame.

Yeah, that totally scares me, lol.

During AWE, I literally got sick of Jack which I didn't think was possible but apparently, when you have multiple Jacks doing things like eating their own brain...it's too much for me. My mom hated him in AWE, too.

Then, there was Rango which felt like Jack Sparrow in lizard form and we hated that as well...

I'm really hoping they develop the secondary characters well because I don't believe you can have a movie with just Jack and have it work. It'd be too much, like the reason Lilo & Stitch works so well is because you have just as much Lilo influencing Stitch.

Unless we're allowed to see more layers of Jack? I'm not talking about crazy or the sparse amount of serious thoughts in his head, but allowing us into his mind in a non-comedic manner more often so he's not just Bugs Bunny or something as Johnny has described him before.

[coneyislandbaby]

This picture is giving me horribly naughty RPF thoughts. I think it's Jack's smile.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Oh, I can totally see that.

I've wondered recently how much Keira keeps in touch with them...it has to be weird and a bit pressuring when all your friends start having babies.

[porridgebird.livejournal.com]

This is a fascinating essay! But I really want to thank you for the picture - I have a small version, and I've been looking for a larger version since forever!

[ghanima-007.livejournal.com]

Great essay but I must disagree.

Elizabeth is very much defined by a man. Her whole journey is not for independence from men`s reign but to get the guy. In fact, her single-minded focus on getting Will is borederline psychotic. Even he gives his father (who, BTW, doesn`t deserve him) a priority over her, while she is willing to get her father killed (when she didn`t disclose that cursed pirates were unkillable) in order to get Will. One can say "Oh, but she didn`t think straight that daddy could die if they attacked Dauntless" but that`s the whole problem with the character - she has complete disregard and insentiveness to other people`s needs and possibility of danger. She didn`t once think of her dad who was back in Port Royal Beckett`s hands. How did she think that would have ended? Happy ending?

Now, funny thing here is that her libido is obviously reinging over her good judgement. She wants to mate with Will so anything else ceases to exist. However, he isn`t so eager to mate with her. So the man who she sees as her sexual liberator is very much the man who`s keeping her unsatisfied because he simply won`t do it before marriage or whatever (T&T said she was frustrated with his swordfighting lessons instead of hanly panky ones). In the end, poetic justice has her left on the dry land in every way including sexually cause her complete physical and mental faithfulness (aka abstinence) is the key to his freedom from the curse.

Now tell me something. Do you honestly think this fate was worth all the trouble? And how did she have a choice between Pirate King and motherhood when there was no baby on the way when she decided to abandon pirate career for lifetime of waiting without friends or any support on some island? She didn`t know she`ll get pregnant from one day of rolling in the sand and considering that he was (un)dead at this point, Will Jr`s conception is as farfetched as baby Renesme. In translation, complete fangirl-pleasing bull.

So independent and strong woman my ass. She was always a slave to her obsession with one man and than she became a slave to his severed heart. That`s not a modern girl. What modern girl would agree to wait like that for a deadbeat dad (even if he is unintentional deadbeat dad)? Modern girl would give him a heave-ho cause it is selfish of him to expect that she should wait. If he was a man she thought him to be, he should have told her not to wait and to have life. But hey, that`s the whole point of the story - he wasn`t that man. Too bad she couldn`t see it which just proves she never grew up. Waiting for a decade is what young girls who have no idea what relationship is think to be true love and true relationship and most romantic thing evah. So she obviously never grow out of that phase since she agreed to such bullcrap.

Finally, that so many people consider Jack the main character while it is really Elizabeth only proves how weak her character is. His presence and strength upstaged her and her story to the point that she is considered a deadweigth in her own story because everyone thinks it`s Jack`s story.

Look, I don`t want to come off condescenting or "I know better than you" or whatever. I just think that characters like Elizabeth contribute nothing to "woman`s worth" because she is still just a girl who only wants to get the guy and would forsake everything (friends, career, independence,etc) for that guy. No different from any Kate Hudson/Katherine Heigl romcom "heroine" except that her Xena schtick creates false sense of "strength" as if female character`s strength is proportinal to body count. So she is no different from traditional damsel in distress because her goal is the same - get the guy. Xena antics are just a faux-feminist gimmick that annoys feminists because a) she still wants the guy above anything else and b) she behaves like a traditional male hero instead of winning her place with feminity.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Yay, you're welcome!!!!

[ghanima-007.livejournal.com]

Just want to add, being my annoying self an all, that Elizabeth didn`t earn any of her titles because of her worth but they fell into her lap thanks to series of flukes. Sao Feng made her a captain because he was duped by Barbossa into thinking she was Calypso. So she didn`t earn his respect because she is Elizabeth Swann the awesome capable leader strong woman whatever but because of mistaken identity. So a man does the job for her. Than she is crowned the Pirate King because she is the best candidate - ha,ha, no, joking - because Jack needs her to get pirates out. So again, thanks to one man`s manipulation, she finds herself at the position she didn`t earn. Not to mention she is Jack`s pawn like everyone else because he knows exactly where he wants everyone to be and they just do his bidding without knowing they are manipulated.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

We will continue to disagree,

For one thing, the island that she watches Will sail away from and the one after the credits look very, very different and I don't think ten years accounts for all of that. It's not the same island, Elizabeth went traveling.

Another thing to consider is that in CotBP Elizabeth is INCREDIBLY naive and sheltered. She knows everything from books because her dad has spent her whole life trying to protect from the bad things, like hangings. She has the mental capacity of a teenager who are often unable to realize longterm repercussions and/or consequences of their actions for themselves or others.

We are never told that Elizabeth must abstain and not bat an eye at any other men for ten years, Davy Jones merely complains about unfaithfullness in terms of not being there on the day his ten years are up.

However, I have been yelled at before for my version of feminism. I believe it's the right to do whatever a woman wants from staying at home with her children to driving a space shuttle to Mars and both occupations are equally important.

b) she behaves like a traditional male hero instead of winning her place with feminity.

I don't even understand this, does this mean showing her boobs, kissing them or something else that is stereotypically female except that Xena did have children, or at least a son. As for masculine Hero...duh, she was supposed to be an Amazon. Are they not familiar with Greek myths?

Either way, yes, Elizabeth's character does suffer from being so young but that is typical of Disney heroines, or Harry Potter, and I still enjoy her journey and believe in what I wrote. I think she does add a positive influence on girls by promoting that dressing like boys, playing with swords, reading, pirates and questioning things are not just for boys. Apart from what Ted and Terry wrote about her visiting the Land of the Dead, we have NO IDEA what happened and probably never will. Your idea may be correct but there is no way discredit mine completely either.

[ghanima-007.livejournal.com]

I aplogize if it seemed like I tried to discredit your idea. Far form it. I said that the essay was great and I stand by it. It`s a great essay, well argumented and well written which is why I wanted to debate it. I wouldn`t bother if it wasn`t the case. I just view the character differently. I don`t think that the script and the actress were successful in getting a positive message across.

Also, you keep mentioning that T&T said she visited the Land of the Dead yet there is nothing in the movies or the script that movies were based on that support such possibility. IMO, what they say is a damage control. Obviously, nobody liked Will`s turn into CotFD, Norrington`s death, Elizabeth the single mom so they feel obliged to say something nice and keep fandom interested in sequels or whatever. However, the problem here is that they did not give absolutely any clue for this to be anything but fangirl-pleasing cop out. I don`t accept it because 99% of people who watched the movies don`t see a possibility of either curse lifting (his heart is removed, he cannot be alive, end of story) or her travel to LoD (she has no ship, no crew and most importantly no map or voodoo priestes who is the Goddess herself to show her the way and there was absolutely no hint in the movies that anyone can visit LoD as they please). Both things that T&T champion on Wordplayer are big time rule-breaking. The rule says 10 years at the seas, one day ashore, and all over again. Not a single word about curse-breaking let alone picnic at LoD. So they are pandering to that 1% that frequents WP but that does not make their answers a canon. In fact, it totally contradicts it.

As for the island, I agree it looks more like England than Caribbean. So she travelled alright but the end before closing credits did show that she turned away from her old life. Which is why I don`t buy LoD story. She said farewell to BP crew including "the captain who knows these waters". It`s illogical that she`d hire her own crew for the job when she could just stay with BP and reuse them. Plot holes abound.

I agree that in COTBP "she had the mental capacity of a teenager unable to realize longterm repercussions" but my problem with the character is that she never matured into someone who is able to realize that. She remains the same self-centered uncompassionate teenager all the way through.

I agree with your view of feminism however my problem with Elizabeth`s wait is that Will didn`t tell her not to. he actually asked her to wait with "keep the weather eye on a horizon"
( exactly, just that very sentence tells you that trip to LoD is bogus - she was to wait on the land looking at the seas) and "will you keep it safe?" so the whole thing comes off as a favor to him rather than her choice because it is in her nature.

As for Xena, she was well-developed character. Elizabeth isn`t. She doesn`t earn anything but obtains it through series of flukes that she doesn`t even initiate. One could admire intelligence if it played a part in her rise to the top of pirate food chain but there was none. Her rise was totally undeserved and implausible. That`s bad writing right there . Xena earned her statuses and reputation and what not. Also, Xena develops. Elizabeth doesn`t. She begins her journey as a self-centered Will-obsessed teen and ends it as self-centered Will-obsessed teen. I see that they tried to make her some kind of Titanic Rose with a sword but they failed to inject compassion in the character both through the script and KK`s pouting&jaw-sticking acting. That`s what makes her unappealing, complete lack of compassion and empathy which happen to be very feminine traits (and huge part of any character strength).

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

The mark of a good story is when you can see something different each time you watch. This is what Ted and Terry were going for with Pirates especially with DMC and AWE, but then, they admitted that some things didn't appear to be clear and Disney made them abandon that whole concept for OST.

It's too bad though because I agreed with them to a certain extent. There is a line between complexity and frustration. The film/book/tv series/whatever has to be able to entertain those who don't want to think about what they're watching while rewarding those who want to analyze and dig deeper. Think how popular Lost was. They had whole websites, videos and other things that were canon and counted as canon but not done by the casual viewer.

Of course, those who don't want to think about what they see are going to be confused about things, but the people who really matter are those who care: they're more likely to buy merchandise and become invested in the fandom. They're also more likely to search out answers, like Wordplayer. So, it wasn't damage control or however you put it, they were simply giving additional information to the people who really cared...no different than explaining how CotBP took place after the earthquake or explaining who Jack got the drawing of the key from in the prison.

Disney already decided before AWE's release that they wanted another film but without Will and Elizabeth except perhaps as a cameo. They were thinking of doing a movie with the Brethren but turned that idea into a book series instead. Since Will and Liz wouldn't have any more cinematic adventures, there wouldn't be any point to trying to keep fan interest in them.

99% of people who watched the movies don`t see a possibility of either curse lifting
Yeah, I doubt it's that high but then, I don't tend to care what the majority of movie-going people think considering the highest grossing movies are Avatar and Titanic, neither of which I can sit through without being bored to tears or falling asleep. I haven't seen either all the way through.

Yes, I accept what Ted and Terry says as canon, the same way that I accept that Dumbledore is gay. There were clues in the books but Rowling didn't actually say that in anything published, but she did say it and since it's her character, it's canon.

The thing about POTC is that it is a fantasy where we learn new rules all the time. We think Barbossa is dead and then, he isn't. We think Jack is dead and then, he isn't either. Now, we find out mermaids are indeed real even though Gillette mentioned them jokingly in the first. All the rules are basically guidelines so with the map, there stands to reason that there are a variety of ways to the Land of the Dead. We only know of two: the way Tia Dalma took and the flash/direct route that the Flying Dutchman takes.

Elizabeth did mature. In the first, she thought nothing of using James in order to get Will but she saved him from death in the second and in the third, she did blame him for her father's death and say that she wouldn't forgive him but she begged him to go with her rather than face certain death for his betrayal by staying behind. Also, in that time period, it would have been customary to wear black in mourning after her father's death, but she doesn't UNTIL James dies.

The horizon occurs all over the world. It's not tied to a specific place especially when they've already proved through the course of the trilogy that they will find each other no matter where the other is. He does have a ship of magical powers. I even have one friend, ShadowKing on KTTC, who insists that he visits Elizabeth on a regular basis since it is such a magical ship. I've tried to explain how unlikely that is but it makes her happy and shows how different people can interpret that ending. Also, she doesn't read Wordplayer either.

[ghanima-007.livejournal.com]

"I accept what Ted and Terry says as canon, the same way that I accept that Dumbledore is gay. There were clues in the books...she did say it and since it's her character, it's canon."

Dumbledore clues were eye popping. POTC movies are very low on particular clues.Also, JKR is a sole writer. POTC is also director`s and editor`s vision.

" 99% of people who watched the movies ..
Yeah, I doubt it's that high "

Of course. I`m a geek, I speak in hyperbole. Something is worst evah or best evah or 99% vs 1%. Guilty of extreme geekory. :)

" it is a fantasy where we learn new rules all the time. We think Barbossa is dead and then, he isn't. "

New rules are fine, breaking the old rules is not. I can suspend the disbelief over Barbossa and Jack return because they were whole but asking to accept that heartless Will becomes human again is too much. With heart, no problem. Without heart, sorry no, big plot hole here. Also, surgey was totally unnecessary. Heart-cutting was just DJ`s emo reaction to break up so totally irrelevant to CotFD position. I know from deleted scene that he put the curse on his heart but Will "died" after Calypso release so how CotFD is chosen was back into her hands already. They really nuked the fridge here since there was no reason to turn Willabeth into some faux-Homerian Greek tragedy. Their ending in COTBP was perfect. This was crap conclusion that doesn`t give anyone a full circle. What has Will achieved here but unwittingly repeat his father`s mistake of abandoning his son? That`s terrible faith that the character doesn`t deserve. Not to mention that CotFD doesn`t fit his story at all. It perfectly fits Norrington`s (man of the seas, unrequited love, seeks redemption for dooming hundreds of souls). If he made in character sacrifice for the greater good by stabbing the heart, Willabeth would still get a bittersweet ending (instead of decidedly only bitter one) cause their happiness is won at the great price for the third party. So you have a full circle with COTBP, where Norrington`s gesture sets everyone free and they could even have Norribeth kiss goodbye for tear-jerking effect. Willabeth are together, Norrington sails away, Jack keeps the map, Barbossa keep BP if they wanted that tie-in with OST. Fans happy as hell.

"Also, in that time period, it would have been customary to wear black in mourning after her father's death, but she doesn't UNTIL James dies."

I love your idea that she wore black in mourning of Norrington. I never thought of that because she was never shown as caring for him outside of "Oh, there you are. Now I remember you exist.Perhaps I help you just a bit." I thought that her accusing him of her father`s death was bad writing, way OTT since Weatherby was like a father to him. So angry or not at his appaling new uniform, it was out of character to think that he would hurt "their" dad. Just drama for the sake of drama. However, because of the scatchy way their relationship was handled, I never got the impression that she cared much or that she remembered his sacrifice.

There were two logical points where she could have paid a tribute. First, at the BC, when she told about Beckett heading that way, she could point out that Admiral Norrington laid his life for their cause.

Second logical point, and more emotional too, is her Braveheart speech. Here, she didn`t act like a pirate for we know that war, charging into battle,etc aren`t pirate style. She was chanelling what Norrington did for living - leading men, motivating them to fight by giving troops-rallying speeches and otherwise doing all kinds of military leader stuff. So she and "the spirit of Norrington" merged here. And what better way than to squeeze in a little tribute? Like, "For James" or "this is for you, James"? Doesn`t have to yell, just whisper to herself. Her speech ripped off Braveheart to a T, so what gives to rip off King Elessar`s "For Frodo" speech in ROTK? if you are knocking off famous movies, go for broke, and nick from the best.

If wearing black was really for him, than it`s a great gesture but it should`ve been spelled out, for a matter like this deserves more than extreme subtlety easily lost even on those who pay attention to small details.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I never saw the heart thing as a problem since they showed Davy Jones smoking and everything, appearing to have normal bodily functions apart from the seas creatures growths.

Also, we've already established that the pirates under the Isla de la Muerta curse could exist even though their bodies had no internal organs at all in the moonlight. Pintel and Ragetti seemed unharmed from the experience in DMC and AWE. Now, we don't know if sperm is produced but they do breath, eat and drink so it's definitely not vampire rules.

Yeah, I never thought they were ripping off anything. It's expected of a leader to rally their troops or sports team in the face of insurmountable odds, like in The Mighty Ducks. However, it goes back over two thousand years to The Iliad.

True, I would have preferred an overt mention but I think the black along with being able to tell exactly who she's thinking of with that speech does work, too. Yes, both films were a sort of experiment. Some of it is very subtle which is what they wanted and one of the things I liked really well. A recent complaint of theirs is how everyone complained it was too complex but then would go home and watch Lost. I think in that way, it may have been ahead of its time. People didn't expect that from a "blockbuster" movie back then. Now, you can have stuff like Inception where people see it more than once and debate all the meanings but there's a stigma against Disney films, like they're not supposed to be that way.

Another example of things not being spelled out is that we learn how the island in DMC where Jack is a God is populated by cannibals. It's stressed a number of times how they eat their own BUT only once does the fisherman tell Will how his brother gets "delicious long pork" from these inhabitants. Those who really care to look it up or already know cannibal terms will realize the cannibals share or trade human meat but the majority of the film-goers will not and they won't care. It's just extra knowledge for the fans who do care.

I've never watched Braveheart either.