The Epic Avengers Post about Coulson
May. 6th, 2012 11:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ericadawn16Here is my non-spoiler, professional movie review:
http://www.yourhighwayinthesky.com/2012/05/the-avengers-amazes/
Okay, onto my feelings on Coulson
First of all, I know the internet loves to blame Joss Whedon for everything.
It's not his fault this time.
Joss loved Coulson and Clark Gregg and wanted him in a bigger part and Marvel went, That's great, we want you to kill him off.
Whedon: You know I'm going to get blamed for this?
Marvel: Not listening, too busy counting money.
Now, I'm a bit biased as well because I didn't blame before I even heard about that. I don't associate Joss Whedon with Death. I've tried to think how that is and this is all I can come up with. I have been a Joss Whedon fan since Buffy first premiered on the WB when I was just 14. I have also always been a spoiler nut. I have known about every single Whedon death before it happened except for Jesse, Darla (the first time) and everyone in Serenity.
These are my favorite Whedon characters:
Rex -survived all three Toy Story films.
Willow -9 seasons and I'm not sure she's even died once.
Spike -survived 6 seasons, died, came back as a ghost, made corporeal again, still lives.
Oz -survived four seasons, left, became happily married with wife and kid, still lives.
Wesley -survived six seasons before dying, came back as a "ghost", might even still be in the comics.
Fred -survived four seasons, died, still showed up occasionally through a demon.
Kaylee -survived one season and movie.
Simon Tam -survived one season and movie.
Wash -Now I admit that this still hurts a bit, to the point of not telling my nephews that the movie exists so they can stay innocent a little longer but only one character in 15 years is pretty damn good.
Again, I was excited for Joss Whedon writing The Avengers. I thought he was absolutely perfect and never worried about him in conjunction with Coulson. Coulson worried me for a whole different reason.
I have a type. It seems to date back to Wesley, but possibly before that, I like the well-dressed guy, preferably in a suit, that drips with sarcasm and can mess you up, if not kill you, in about three seconds.
Wesley's death was sad but Angel was over so it wasn't like I would have to miss him in new episodes. Plus, the comics later had Wesley even after he was dead because that's the Whedon way...no one's truly dead and gone. They're always there. They always come back, at the very least in flashbacks and/or character motivations for quite some time.
Then, I fell in love with James Norrington. Sure, it was a military uniform, but the same aspects apply. He was awesome. He had a quip for every occasion, he was extremely skilled with a sword and he could do things with a gun that Mythbusters claims is impossible.
Then, he died and I was pissed. You never forget that first character death that truly pisses you off so it was always in the back of my mind.
I vowed to never love a character again who wasn't immortal so then I would never have to worry again them dying ever again.
Then, Ianto Jones came along. Of course, I fell for him. He was also brilliant with a one-liner, looked stunning in a suit and was proficient with a variety of weapons especially his taser. Then, he died, too.
One or two people can make you nervous. More than that and the paranoia sets in. Coulson appeared to be having a much larger role in The Avengers and Gregg was really pleased with his story.
uhoh
I've been down this road before. I was not surprised to have it confirmed. Then, I started worrying for a whole other reason. What if they messed it up? What if it was like Norrington where his death became a cheap laugh for the villain? Or the fact that Norrington was immediately forgotten and never bought up again? What if it was like Ianto where his death was insanely stupid and actually caused his lover to be so distraught that he killed his own grandson?!
In this regard, Joss Whedon did alleviate my fears a bit because he had never done a stupid death in any of his works. Even Wash, which hurt, had a proper send-off and it was felt through-out the rest of that film.
As much as Coulson's death hurt, as much as I just wanted to see him again, as much as I still want to see him again, it was done beautifully. I have only a few nitpicks.
Yes, beautifully, he was made into the fanboy, into us. I had misinterpreted the shield scene from Iron Man 2 completely and I love when that happens, when you find something out that makes you think...
I NEED to watch multiple films all over again!
He was made into a comic book nerd and it was fabulous. There was more to him than quips, the suit, the moves and the occasional odd reference, like watching Supernanny. He was made into a real person, complete with a love life and hobbies. I wanted him and Pepper to go on longer. They almost seemed like BFFS and it was adorable especially Tony almost seeming threatened by their closeness yet using that to try and get to know "Agent" better. He even offered to fly Phil to see his girlfriend! Tony, the asshole, offered to do something nice. Previously, I think Tony's niceness was entirely constrained to Pepper herself. One of my nitpicks would be that I wanted Pepper finding out.
Coulson hadn't had the best relationship with Thor but he did make sure Jane was protected and I loved that they made sure that was Coulson. I would have liked a scene with Bruce Banner but maybe that's on the dvd. All we need to know about Coulson, Natasha and Clint was condensed into dialogue and body language but it worked. It was lovely. The way his voice quavered about Hawkeye being compromised and calling her Natasha or Tasha. I just hope there's a filmed scene about Natasha telling Clint and that it's similar to http://myficcywic.livejournal.com/20938.html#cutid1
Almost on par with Tony was his interactions with Steve. It's especially interesting since even though he's known for being nice and upstanding, he's really kind of a dick to Phil. On the other hand, we get to see Coulson tongue-tied for the first time ever which is just adorable.
I also loved how Nick was very mission-focused. He wanted everything out but when that mission was going to jeopardize his soldiers, Coulson ditched that plan in a heartbeat. He had them drop everything and leave. Coulson was the heart that the rest of SHIELD seems to lack although I would have loved a reminder of his skills from the gas station featurette especially since not everyone saw that.
Nick Fury always said we or SHIELD for who came up with the Avengers Initiative but I like to think it was really Phil.
Of course, the only way to get the drop on Phil is to suddenly appear behind him. Obviously, he hasn't been around Azazel or Nightcrawler. Still, even with a fatal wound, he's fully capable of hitting the bad guy because he's just THAT badass.
Oh yes, unlike Norrington, Coulson got the final laugh against the villain and it was glorious. Then, there was the follow-up scene with Fury. I cried and then, there were all the reactions and I cried some more. Tony...it was just, I loved how choked up he was, how he tried to joke and call him "Agent" and act like he didn't matter but he did, he did matter to Tony. Tony was on the verge of tears so many times.
"You pissed one more of us off. His name is Phil."
Beautiful, absolutely beautiful, yes, Loki threatens the earth. Yes, bad things are happening but the real reason they're going after Loki? The real reason Tony gets this thing going?
He killed Phil and they're going to avenge him. The title of the film is The Avengers and they're avenging Phil's death. He thought this might happen which is why he seemed okay with dying but still, that's pretty damn powerful.
Tony even called Phil a moron out of anger at his being dead but doing the right thing, knowing you might get killed is exactly what Tony does later on, again from Phil's influence. Oh gosh, I knew they wouldn't kill Tony off but I still felt for Pepper not answering the phone and imagining if she had to find out that Tony AND Phil were BOTH dead...horrible.
On one hand, because Steve had been such a dick, he probably needed that extra push about what a dick he'd been but then it was so sad, those cards that he'd spent three years collecting and they were just lying scattered on the table. There was a fanfic where they all took one which was kind of sweet.
There was one character who I really liked before this movie and now I don't like him too much:
Nick Fury.
Before, he came off like a badass. Now, it turns out that he's just another manipulative, deceptive, sneaky bureaucrat.
Okay, let's talk about the Cellist thing. I know. We basically all got Jossed but it's not the end of the world. He could be Bi.![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
valoscope asked me the best, most overlooked question:
Is there a Marvel character who plays the cello?
I didn't think there was, but there is.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Katherine_Bishop_(Earth-616)
Abilities
Kate Bishop is a baseline human with no superhuman powers. However she does possess several skills,
Cellist: Can play the cello.
Now, here's the part where I had to laugh and laugh for like five minutes straight.
She finally officially donned the title "Hawkeye" when Captain America decided it was a fitting honor.
Oh yes, they're onto US!
I also want fic now. Someone claimed since she's a teenager that it would be icky but movie canon isn't exactly 100% the same as comic book canon. We could age her up.
If Phil was still just a movie character like he started off as, I would be a lot more upset. Luckily, he is the only Marvel character to start on celluloid and join the printed page. You can find him in the movie universe comics and books, but you can also find him in:
Battle Scars (Earth-616)
Marcus Johnson and his best friend, Cheese, avenge his mother's murder aka Coulson's freaking Origin story!
The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
He's not in the animated series but he's going to be in the comic book series based off of it.
Ultimate Spider-man
Coulson is sent undercover as Peter Parker's high school principal. Of course, I would feel a whole lot better if he had been in today's show but I have my fingers crossed for next week.
You should also notice how none of these media has anything in common with the other one. They're all different universes. Heck, comic book Coulson is even blond...how that happened, I don't know but I do agree with RDJ, Comic book characters never die. They just get recast.
I'm also happy that Clark Gregg and Marvel still have a good enough relationship that he wants to write and direct in the future, namely Shield projects like the Hawkeye movie.
Also, I love in the beginning of Iron Man, Tony is using the same argument as Nick Fury about having to make that bigger stick but by The Avengers, Tony is arguing against it.
http://www.yourhighwayinthesky.com/2012/05/the-avengers-amazes/
Okay, onto my feelings on Coulson
First of all, I know the internet loves to blame Joss Whedon for everything.
It's not his fault this time.
Joss loved Coulson and Clark Gregg and wanted him in a bigger part and Marvel went, That's great, we want you to kill him off.
Whedon: You know I'm going to get blamed for this?
Marvel: Not listening, too busy counting money.
Now, I'm a bit biased as well because I didn't blame before I even heard about that. I don't associate Joss Whedon with Death. I've tried to think how that is and this is all I can come up with. I have been a Joss Whedon fan since Buffy first premiered on the WB when I was just 14. I have also always been a spoiler nut. I have known about every single Whedon death before it happened except for Jesse, Darla (the first time) and everyone in Serenity.
These are my favorite Whedon characters:
Rex -survived all three Toy Story films.
Willow -9 seasons and I'm not sure she's even died once.
Spike -survived 6 seasons, died, came back as a ghost, made corporeal again, still lives.
Oz -survived four seasons, left, became happily married with wife and kid, still lives.
Wesley -survived six seasons before dying, came back as a "ghost", might even still be in the comics.
Fred -survived four seasons, died, still showed up occasionally through a demon.
Kaylee -survived one season and movie.
Simon Tam -survived one season and movie.
Wash -Now I admit that this still hurts a bit, to the point of not telling my nephews that the movie exists so they can stay innocent a little longer but only one character in 15 years is pretty damn good.
Again, I was excited for Joss Whedon writing The Avengers. I thought he was absolutely perfect and never worried about him in conjunction with Coulson. Coulson worried me for a whole different reason.
I have a type. It seems to date back to Wesley, but possibly before that, I like the well-dressed guy, preferably in a suit, that drips with sarcasm and can mess you up, if not kill you, in about three seconds.
Wesley's death was sad but Angel was over so it wasn't like I would have to miss him in new episodes. Plus, the comics later had Wesley even after he was dead because that's the Whedon way...no one's truly dead and gone. They're always there. They always come back, at the very least in flashbacks and/or character motivations for quite some time.
Then, I fell in love with James Norrington. Sure, it was a military uniform, but the same aspects apply. He was awesome. He had a quip for every occasion, he was extremely skilled with a sword and he could do things with a gun that Mythbusters claims is impossible.
Then, he died and I was pissed. You never forget that first character death that truly pisses you off so it was always in the back of my mind.
I vowed to never love a character again who wasn't immortal so then I would never have to worry again them dying ever again.
Then, Ianto Jones came along. Of course, I fell for him. He was also brilliant with a one-liner, looked stunning in a suit and was proficient with a variety of weapons especially his taser. Then, he died, too.
One or two people can make you nervous. More than that and the paranoia sets in. Coulson appeared to be having a much larger role in The Avengers and Gregg was really pleased with his story.
uhoh
I've been down this road before. I was not surprised to have it confirmed. Then, I started worrying for a whole other reason. What if they messed it up? What if it was like Norrington where his death became a cheap laugh for the villain? Or the fact that Norrington was immediately forgotten and never bought up again? What if it was like Ianto where his death was insanely stupid and actually caused his lover to be so distraught that he killed his own grandson?!
In this regard, Joss Whedon did alleviate my fears a bit because he had never done a stupid death in any of his works. Even Wash, which hurt, had a proper send-off and it was felt through-out the rest of that film.
As much as Coulson's death hurt, as much as I just wanted to see him again, as much as I still want to see him again, it was done beautifully. I have only a few nitpicks.
Yes, beautifully, he was made into the fanboy, into us. I had misinterpreted the shield scene from Iron Man 2 completely and I love when that happens, when you find something out that makes you think...
I NEED to watch multiple films all over again!
He was made into a comic book nerd and it was fabulous. There was more to him than quips, the suit, the moves and the occasional odd reference, like watching Supernanny. He was made into a real person, complete with a love life and hobbies. I wanted him and Pepper to go on longer. They almost seemed like BFFS and it was adorable especially Tony almost seeming threatened by their closeness yet using that to try and get to know "Agent" better. He even offered to fly Phil to see his girlfriend! Tony, the asshole, offered to do something nice. Previously, I think Tony's niceness was entirely constrained to Pepper herself. One of my nitpicks would be that I wanted Pepper finding out.
Coulson hadn't had the best relationship with Thor but he did make sure Jane was protected and I loved that they made sure that was Coulson. I would have liked a scene with Bruce Banner but maybe that's on the dvd. All we need to know about Coulson, Natasha and Clint was condensed into dialogue and body language but it worked. It was lovely. The way his voice quavered about Hawkeye being compromised and calling her Natasha or Tasha. I just hope there's a filmed scene about Natasha telling Clint and that it's similar to http://myficcywic.livejournal.com/20938.html#cutid1
Almost on par with Tony was his interactions with Steve. It's especially interesting since even though he's known for being nice and upstanding, he's really kind of a dick to Phil. On the other hand, we get to see Coulson tongue-tied for the first time ever which is just adorable.
I also loved how Nick was very mission-focused. He wanted everything out but when that mission was going to jeopardize his soldiers, Coulson ditched that plan in a heartbeat. He had them drop everything and leave. Coulson was the heart that the rest of SHIELD seems to lack although I would have loved a reminder of his skills from the gas station featurette especially since not everyone saw that.
Nick Fury always said we or SHIELD for who came up with the Avengers Initiative but I like to think it was really Phil.
Of course, the only way to get the drop on Phil is to suddenly appear behind him. Obviously, he hasn't been around Azazel or Nightcrawler. Still, even with a fatal wound, he's fully capable of hitting the bad guy because he's just THAT badass.
Oh yes, unlike Norrington, Coulson got the final laugh against the villain and it was glorious. Then, there was the follow-up scene with Fury. I cried and then, there were all the reactions and I cried some more. Tony...it was just, I loved how choked up he was, how he tried to joke and call him "Agent" and act like he didn't matter but he did, he did matter to Tony. Tony was on the verge of tears so many times.
"You pissed one more of us off. His name is Phil."
Beautiful, absolutely beautiful, yes, Loki threatens the earth. Yes, bad things are happening but the real reason they're going after Loki? The real reason Tony gets this thing going?
He killed Phil and they're going to avenge him. The title of the film is The Avengers and they're avenging Phil's death. He thought this might happen which is why he seemed okay with dying but still, that's pretty damn powerful.
Tony even called Phil a moron out of anger at his being dead but doing the right thing, knowing you might get killed is exactly what Tony does later on, again from Phil's influence. Oh gosh, I knew they wouldn't kill Tony off but I still felt for Pepper not answering the phone and imagining if she had to find out that Tony AND Phil were BOTH dead...horrible.
On one hand, because Steve had been such a dick, he probably needed that extra push about what a dick he'd been but then it was so sad, those cards that he'd spent three years collecting and they were just lying scattered on the table. There was a fanfic where they all took one which was kind of sweet.
There was one character who I really liked before this movie and now I don't like him too much:
Nick Fury.
Before, he came off like a badass. Now, it turns out that he's just another manipulative, deceptive, sneaky bureaucrat.
Okay, let's talk about the Cellist thing. I know. We basically all got Jossed but it's not the end of the world. He could be Bi.
valoscope asked me the best, most overlooked question:Is there a Marvel character who plays the cello?
I didn't think there was, but there is.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Katherine_Bishop_(Earth-616)
Abilities
Kate Bishop is a baseline human with no superhuman powers. However she does possess several skills,
Cellist: Can play the cello.
Now, here's the part where I had to laugh and laugh for like five minutes straight.
She finally officially donned the title "Hawkeye" when Captain America decided it was a fitting honor.
Oh yes, they're onto US!
I also want fic now. Someone claimed since she's a teenager that it would be icky but movie canon isn't exactly 100% the same as comic book canon. We could age her up.
If Phil was still just a movie character like he started off as, I would be a lot more upset. Luckily, he is the only Marvel character to start on celluloid and join the printed page. You can find him in the movie universe comics and books, but you can also find him in:
Battle Scars (Earth-616)
Marcus Johnson and his best friend, Cheese, avenge his mother's murder aka Coulson's freaking Origin story!
The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
He's not in the animated series but he's going to be in the comic book series based off of it.
Ultimate Spider-man
Coulson is sent undercover as Peter Parker's high school principal. Of course, I would feel a whole lot better if he had been in today's show but I have my fingers crossed for next week.
You should also notice how none of these media has anything in common with the other one. They're all different universes. Heck, comic book Coulson is even blond...how that happened, I don't know but I do agree with RDJ, Comic book characters never die. They just get recast.
I'm also happy that Clark Gregg and Marvel still have a good enough relationship that he wants to write and direct in the future, namely Shield projects like the Hawkeye movie.
Also, I love in the beginning of Iron Man, Tony is using the same argument as Nick Fury about having to make that bigger stick but by The Avengers, Tony is arguing against it.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2012-05-07 05:52 am (UTC)I sat a bit closer this time, and I could better see Clark's face during the scene. I hadn't realized that a tear had fallen down his face, and when he basically said that he was okay with dying because it would bring the team together, I about lost it. I'm still in a state of denial, and have that niggling idea that they faked his death.
Now I love Steve, but I do agree that he was kind of a dick there. I chalk it up to both coming from another era, and being a commander who saw Phil as just another soldier. Like you, I was struck by Tony's reaction. RDJ just killed it there, and reminded us that Tony Stark does indeed have a heart.
I was also disappointed by the lack of scenes with reactions from Clint, Natasha, and Pepper. I'm hoping that's some of the stuff that'll be added to the DVD.
I'm stoked at the thought of Clark directing the Hawkeye movie (commence collective Clint/Coulson fangirl ovary explosion)! I'd love it to be Clint's origin story; would make a great excuse for more Phil! ;)