Avengers Addendum
Jun. 14th, 2012 10:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ericadawn16It was kind of late last night and I feel I didn't do Natasha justice so I'm going to copy what I posted in another journal:
http://workerbee73.livejournal.com/136438.html
I still really want to know what the movie universe beginning is...
We know she TOLD Loki Barton had spared her life when she was a criminal.
We don't know for certain if she was telling the truth.
We do know that SHIELD wouldn't send her to spy for Stark if she had already tried to screw him over before so that rules out the original comic origin of getting Clint to help her get Stark's money/secrets.
I also find really interesting the parallels between Natasha and Loki which is another reason why she alone could have done it.
Both Loki and Natasha started off as pawns, war trophies. Royalty that was born into the wrong circumstances. Loki was a sort of Frost Giant midget. Natasha was a Romanov born in a country created out of destroying her family and their birthright to the throne. Both were kept from who they truly were, trained to be someone else and then had to face the truth of who they really were as well as what was done to them.
It reminds me of what Pixar would say about Woody and Lotso in Toy Story 3. They were both faced with abandonment by their owners but what made all the difference was in how they coped with that.
Natasha decided that if she couldn't depend on anyone, she could only depend on herself. She turned inward and started fending for herself the best way she knew how.
Loki still wants external acceptance in order to accept himself. He feels he needs others to justify his existence. He thinks this could be done through power but makes a series of deals and mistakes that he tends to regret. As Phil said, he lacks conviction because he doesn't have a real plan, he just knows what he wants.
However, the key is that Loki had a childhood where he was able to be a regular boy like Thor and Natasha was never allowed to have a childhood. Love is for children because she was never given it in the first place. Loki did have that love but it was under such false pretenses while constantly being taught how evil the Frost Giants were that he can't let himself trust Thor or his adoptive family again.
I realized something as I was watching Buffy today. No matter what some characters do, we end up forgiving them everything. Namely, there's Spike. He comes in as a villain. He's killed two slayers, has a Buffybot created and tries to rape Buffy yet we continue to root for Spike to succeed and be a better person, even wanting him to be with Buffy despite all of it. It reminded me a lot of fandom and Loki at the moment.
Tony had also spent his whole life wanting outward acceptance. Since he was rich, brilliant and handsome, he was very successful in getting it. Now, he's having to learn how to find it from himself and how to give greater power over his happiness to certain others, like Pepper. Calling Pepper when he thought he was going to die was a huge step. Unfortunately, she did not pick up and he will have to cope even more with being hurt by those he's let into his tiny circle. Still, I'm intrigued about further character development.
Also, I neglected to mention another aspect of Tony and not being a "solder". When most celebrities and journalists visits Afghanistan, they try to dress the part. Tony wears a suit. He wants to be visibly distanced from those around him. Then again, he does this most of the time. Everyone else, apart from Natasha, kept on what they were wearing when called to the Helicarrier, Tony changed into a new suit; black but with enough casual sense and color not to be confused with Coulson or the others. Yes, sadly, I counted at least two others wearing suits, too...
http://workerbee73.livejournal.com/136438.html
I still really want to know what the movie universe beginning is...
We know she TOLD Loki Barton had spared her life when she was a criminal.
We don't know for certain if she was telling the truth.
We do know that SHIELD wouldn't send her to spy for Stark if she had already tried to screw him over before so that rules out the original comic origin of getting Clint to help her get Stark's money/secrets.
I also find really interesting the parallels between Natasha and Loki which is another reason why she alone could have done it.
Both Loki and Natasha started off as pawns, war trophies. Royalty that was born into the wrong circumstances. Loki was a sort of Frost Giant midget. Natasha was a Romanov born in a country created out of destroying her family and their birthright to the throne. Both were kept from who they truly were, trained to be someone else and then had to face the truth of who they really were as well as what was done to them.
It reminds me of what Pixar would say about Woody and Lotso in Toy Story 3. They were both faced with abandonment by their owners but what made all the difference was in how they coped with that.
Natasha decided that if she couldn't depend on anyone, she could only depend on herself. She turned inward and started fending for herself the best way she knew how.
Loki still wants external acceptance in order to accept himself. He feels he needs others to justify his existence. He thinks this could be done through power but makes a series of deals and mistakes that he tends to regret. As Phil said, he lacks conviction because he doesn't have a real plan, he just knows what he wants.
However, the key is that Loki had a childhood where he was able to be a regular boy like Thor and Natasha was never allowed to have a childhood. Love is for children because she was never given it in the first place. Loki did have that love but it was under such false pretenses while constantly being taught how evil the Frost Giants were that he can't let himself trust Thor or his adoptive family again.
I realized something as I was watching Buffy today. No matter what some characters do, we end up forgiving them everything. Namely, there's Spike. He comes in as a villain. He's killed two slayers, has a Buffybot created and tries to rape Buffy yet we continue to root for Spike to succeed and be a better person, even wanting him to be with Buffy despite all of it. It reminded me a lot of fandom and Loki at the moment.
Tony had also spent his whole life wanting outward acceptance. Since he was rich, brilliant and handsome, he was very successful in getting it. Now, he's having to learn how to find it from himself and how to give greater power over his happiness to certain others, like Pepper. Calling Pepper when he thought he was going to die was a huge step. Unfortunately, she did not pick up and he will have to cope even more with being hurt by those he's let into his tiny circle. Still, I'm intrigued about further character development.
Also, I neglected to mention another aspect of Tony and not being a "solder". When most celebrities and journalists visits Afghanistan, they try to dress the part. Tony wears a suit. He wants to be visibly distanced from those around him. Then again, he does this most of the time. Everyone else, apart from Natasha, kept on what they were wearing when called to the Helicarrier, Tony changed into a new suit; black but with enough casual sense and color not to be confused with Coulson or the others. Yes, sadly, I counted at least two others wearing suits, too...
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no subject
Date: 2012-06-15 03:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-15 04:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-15 05:30 am (UTC)Dear Marvel/Disney/whoever:
Srs bsns.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-15 04:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-15 05:28 am (UTC)We don't know for certain if she was telling the truth.
As much as I enjoy the idea of Nat (successfully) lying to the God of Lies, I also think she probably wouldn't lie about something that Loki could have fairly easily verified already. I think it's probably PART of the truth... maybe not the whole truth, though.
And I love reading your musings :D
no subject
Date: 2012-06-19 12:04 am (UTC)Loki wanting external acceptance definitely draws him a lot. He wants to be the cold villain, but he still cares too much about what people think.
To me I think there is redemptive power in characters. If they do enough good then it can outweigh their bad. Also people can change so it's worth giving them another shot and just hope that it doesn't bite you in the ass in the end. It's especially hard to hate someone when you can kind of understand why they would feel so hateful and bitter and destructive towards the world in the first place. That's not to say it excuses what they do, just that it is hard to get the same degree of fiery hate towards them.
I was surprised Tony called Pepper when he thought he was going to die. Even if he doesn't want to admit it/it is not a conscious decision I think he will hold it a little bit against her.
And Tony always wants to stand out, war or no.