![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ericadawn16This summer I was faced with a crisis. This summer should be known as the Debacle of Death!
Between May 1st through July 31, not one, not two but a total of NINE of my favorites characters died from impalement, drowning, spells, a knife and one awful snake from my fandoms of Spider-man, Lost, Pirates and Harry Potter. By the time I finished Harry Potter, I swore I’d never love again.
However, the Fandom Gods had other plans for me. I fell hard for the title character of a show I’d watched casually for over a year: Dr. Who.
It happened so gradually that I didn’t notice what had gone from a show that I could miss if my schedule didn’t work out or I forgot to a show that I now watch every single time that it’s on, both on SciFi and BBC America. I also love Torchwood which is the spin-off.
Now what makes Dr. Who and Captain Jack Harkness, star of Torchwood, so different from my previous favorite characters?
THEY CAN’T DIE!!!
Ever…
(Cackles manically.)
That’s my new plan; I should only fall in love with immortal characters who will never let me down.
Aren't they cute?
Between May 1st through July 31, not one, not two but a total of NINE of my favorites characters died from impalement, drowning, spells, a knife and one awful snake from my fandoms of Spider-man, Lost, Pirates and Harry Potter. By the time I finished Harry Potter, I swore I’d never love again.
However, the Fandom Gods had other plans for me. I fell hard for the title character of a show I’d watched casually for over a year: Dr. Who.
It happened so gradually that I didn’t notice what had gone from a show that I could miss if my schedule didn’t work out or I forgot to a show that I now watch every single time that it’s on, both on SciFi and BBC America. I also love Torchwood which is the spin-off.
Now what makes Dr. Who and Captain Jack Harkness, star of Torchwood, so different from my previous favorite characters?
THEY CAN’T DIE!!!
Ever…
(Cackles manically.)
That’s my new plan; I should only fall in love with immortal characters who will never let me down.
Aren't they cute?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2007-09-24 01:12 am (UTC)THAT SUCKS
We must find a way around it. Maybe Rose or someone secretly had his child...
no subject
Date: 2007-09-24 02:13 pm (UTC)Although, since that's never been explicitly stated on screen, feel free to pretend it's not canon.
Also, have you seen TLotTL, yet? Or, at least, know the reveal/retcon about Jack?
no subject
Date: 2007-09-24 03:54 pm (UTC)(Goes to happy place which ends up being Sally's with the violin concerto)
"Also, have you seen TLotTL, yet? Or, at least, know the reveal/retcon about Jack?"
WHAT?! WHERE? grr fuck Guh
(Slam head down on desk)
I've only seen through Utopia and between you and Cici, you're teasing me all to pieces...she wrote below:
"Wait 'til you see the finale; massive info on Jack comes to the surface that'll change the way you look at him (as well as another chara) forever ;)"
And then you put:
"I mean, Jack is 2/3 of the way to being a Time Lord by now, anyway!"
What the hell? Ok, he can't die, but he can't regenerate and I can't think what the third thing would be... (all confused)
I wanna know, but I don't wanna be spoiled. Ok, SciFi will be having the final two episodes after Utopia on this Friday and next and then I will know everything...possibly.
Well, there must be a way past stealing other people's bodies!
Jack taking over the role would be interesting, but again limiting unless we can figure out a way of having him regenerate into a different actor which is how DW worked so well because I doubt JB wants to be playing JH when he's fifty and they'd have to explain why Jack's aging somehow after over a hundred years of not doing so.
Ben is Glory??
Jack is The Master??
Wtf?? No, that can't be true. That's impossible.
(Goes to Happy Place again and brings Oz with her for a make-out session.)
Unless Jack is Cassandra...
(Vomits...but at least Oz is there to hold back my hair and offer me an animal Cracker.)
But then you put depending on my interpretation of canon??? Ok, 11 more days, 11 more days...
I didn't know who Jack hooks up with when I saw the pilot. I did catch that suit bit but as DW has pointed out, Jack does that with everyone. He's like POTC Capt. Jack except more overtly bisexual.
11 more days, 11 more days...
no subject
Date: 2007-09-24 04:16 pm (UTC)Actually, I just chose 2/3 as an arbitrary number. I didn't mean there were three specific qualifications for being a Time Lord.
and they'd have to explain why Jack's aging somehow after over a hundred years of not doing so.
That's presuming, of course, that John Barrowman *does* age, which I've seen no evidence of, so far.
But then you put depending on my interpretation of canon??? Well, there is the fact that Jack *is* a conman, and so you can't entirely believe everything he says, especially about himself. I'd also like it better if it does turn out that what-Jack-says was just Jack screwing with the Doctor's head, than actually being true. Especially, Jack has been so incredibly forgiving and understanding of the Doctor, that I'd kind of love it if Jack decided to get a tiny, innocuous bit of revenge on the Doctor, just for the lolz. Also, since Rusty won't confirm nor deny whether this is true.
I didn't know who Jack hooks up with when I saw the pilot.
I just meant that Ianto's name had been mentioned in "Everything Changes."
11 more days, 11 more days
When TLotTL aired it Britain, it ran 52 minutes, unlike the usual 45 minutes. Watch SciFi cuts out the reveal/retcon for time, just to frustrate the hell out of you.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-24 08:53 pm (UTC)I even complained to my mom about you and Cici teasing me. I told her how Cici had said that there would be a revelation that changes how we see two characters forever so she suggested that they were gay. I explained how "We already know Jack's bisexual. He's hit on the Doctor several times" so my mom asked, "Has the Doctor hit back?"
Sometimes what my mom says is priceless...
I'll probably end up watching them on Youtube after all.
Thank you for the pic
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 08:06 pm (UTC)wtf?
yes, i caved and watched them online
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 04:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 05:55 pm (UTC)Of course, Jack's more than a head, but then the Doctor was hinting how we don't know what aging without dying would do to him and they do have similar lips.
However, when the Doctor was age accelerated, he grew smaller, not bigger, but I'm sure Jack's always been accused of having a big head!
(Laughs at my own very bad joke)
Ok, so point by point...
The Face of Boe sponsored the viewing party of the Earth destroyed by the sun 5 billion years in the future.
Now, on the surface, this seems kind of strange. Despite having a very outgoing personality, Jack doesn't seem to be into large group activities. He's noted for not having been to a Rugby match and although he met Estelle at a dance, he appears to prefer small intimate gatherings of just two or three people unless he's working.
However, he could have developed a taste for parties and social occasions as a way of coping with losing everyone...becoming mildly attached to a group of people instead of deeply caring for a few.
It also makes sense that he would want to see the last moments of the Earth. A place that would hold a special place in his heart for being where he met The Doctor, Rose, Estelle and headed Torchwood. He probably would want friends around which is why he'd invite the Doctor...I should really rewatch that episode, I can't even remember if we actually see him.
Jack's not technically human, right? I know Boe states that he's the last of his species.
Boe is mentioned as pregnant at one point and although he says he won't do that again, we do know that Jack has been and is capable of pregnancy...unless it happened before the Rose incident and the Regenerative properties would interfere with it.
The nurse on New Earth claims that his being billions of years old is ridiculous although if the Doctor fixed his wrist communicator thing so he couldn't time travel and he's seen 5 billion years later, then yes, he is billions of years old. The Doctor also wears a smile like he thinks he is that age. Boe refers to the Doctor as a Wandering Traveller without a home like himself, again the comparison between the two. In the first episode of Torchwood, he describes him as "a special kind of Doctor" but he's still upset at his situation and being left and everything so he wouldn't want to compare himself with the Doctor.
Yes, Boe knows that the Doctor is not alone and that the Master goes by YANA because he already lived through it. He doesn't tell him on New Earth because he knows that the Doctor doesn't meet the Master until he's with Martha and he knows they meet again because Martha and the Doctor mention it.
However, this doesn't explain why Jack never mentioned anything to them before like when they mention him in Utopia unless Jack doesn't realize he's who they mean in an older form because even though he's a fact, wouldn't it still be subject to paradox where none of the Jacks can know or meet each other?
I haven't listened but supposedly in this podcast:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/doctorwho/ram/313_commentary?size=au&bgc=CC0000&nbram=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1
This is what is said:
Writer Russell T. Davies, in the episode's commentary, called the implication of this scene "a theory" as to the Face of Boe's origins, prompting Executive Producer Julie Gardner to urge him to "stop backpedalling" about the two characters being the same. Davies also mentioned that after writing the scene, he inserted a line in the ADR recording for "Gridlock" in which the Face of Boe calls the Doctor "old friend".[1]
Now, I noticed the "old friend" bit but it's the Doctor, isn't everyone an old friend of the Doctor's practically?
Personally, I hope you're right. They were talking about what he might look like, the Face of Boe popped in his head as an example of what he didn't want to look like if he was billions of years old and Jack decided to have some fun with the Doctor.
If he's the Face of Boe, then that means...he...he..DIED!!!
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 07:33 pm (UTC)I think Jack is technically still human--just one who can't stay dead. I get the impression (and I still haven't seen all of Torchwood, yet) that Jack goes through the pain of dying each time, though.
Boe is mentioned as pregnant at one point and although he says he won't do that again, we do know that Jack has been and is capable of pregnancy...unless it happened before the Rose incident and the Regenerative properties would interfere with it.
Again, that's if you take everything Jack says at face value--which I don't. Actually, I think that was the point of Jack's ramble at the beginning of "Everything Changes": to remind us that you can't trust what Jack says.
However, this doesn't explain why Jack never mentioned anything to them before like when they mention him in Utopia unless Jack doesn't realize he's who they mean in an older form because even though he's a fact, wouldn't it still be subject to paradox where none of the Jacks can know or meet each other?
I think it adds to the Jack!=Boe theory. He needed the time between "Utopia" and TLotTL to think of his way of messing with the Doctor's head.
Now, I noticed the "old friend" bit but it's the Doctor, isn't everyone an old friend of the Doctor's practically?
Especially, since we know that the Doctor has met Boe twice before and saved his life once. Perhaps, the Doctor might even meet him again in the future (or somebody's future).
If he's the Face of Boe, then that means...he...he..DIED!!!
I kinda of don't want this to happen, because I want Jack to get his shanshu. Otherwise, TW is pointless (or even more so than usual).
Although, strangely, I don't mind when canon is a bit wonky, since it gives fanfic writer more to play with. ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 09:58 pm (UTC)I thought according to Wesley's accurate definition, you must die in order to live so would Shanshu still apply or the Creepy First Slayer "Death is your gift"?
What's TW?
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 10:08 pm (UTC)Now that you mention it, I don't think we do. At least, a 51st Century human might not be quite the same as a 21st Century one.
I thought according to Wesley's accurate definition, you must die in order to live so would Shanshu still apply or the Creepy First Slayer "Death is your gift"?
I was being snarky. I just meant the chance to become a "normal" human again, with a normal lifespan.
TW = Torchwood
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 10:33 pm (UTC)And what is a Time Agent anyway? What is their purpose? Were they formed after the Doctor...(don't wanna say it, don't wanna say it)...died? Are they supposed to fix everything that the Doctor didn't get around to or were they for the benefit of a certain galaxy or coalition of planets?
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 01:36 pm (UTC)It's never really been explained. Actually, a lot of canon on DW is hand-wave-y. I think the gist is that they hunted down people who illegally used time travel. My favorite fanwank is that they are what Torchwood eventually became.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 02:07 pm (UTC)I watched Greeks Bearing Gifts yesterday and Jack was being all telepathic and I was like, Oh. It was another notch for the Jack really is Boe side.
I don't know. I'm sort of beginning to like it, that he has this whole arc where he goes from Con Man to Hero and it only takes 5 billion years. ;)
Actually, they stress in interviews that he went from Con Man to Hero in that first season, but he retained a lot of his questionable properties, like suggesting they just snap the Master's neck. "Now that sounds like Torchwood."
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 02:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 04:33 pm (UTC)I'm opposed to the Death Penalty.
I think the Doctor has a right to be pissy about Torchwood. Torchwood was founded by Queen Victoria pretty much to guard against the Doctor.
Supposedly, The Doctor's name was written into the Torchwood Foundation's charter as an enemy of the Crown which I'm inclined to believe since she banished him and Rose from England.
According to Ianto, "It survived and flourished down the decades, becoming stronger and, some say, more arrogant. " This is still the mindset of people as evidenced by "They keep killing Suzie" and the Doctor probably would have heard that. The Doctor doesn't tend to believe authority figures over the man on the street, I've noticed.
There was Torchwood's involvement in the destroying of the Sycorax on Christmas after he had left them go. The Doctor himself and his TARDIS were both taken by Torchwood. I doubt captivity makes the heart grow fonder. It was Torchwood's act of exploring the breach and exploiting it for England's gain that enabled the Cybermen and Daleks to invade. We already know how much the Doctor hates that from Jack's mistake with the Nanogens.
Most importantly, what he would consider Torchwood's mistake ulimately cost him Rose.
The Doctor would assume it was business as usual with crazy people working for Torchwood because of Donna.
So, Jack admitting that he was working with them, actually leading them, would probably be a bit of betrayal. However, I think the Doctor's attitude could change since it was Torchwood knowledge that helped in those episodes with the Master, including making up the gun, plus, Martha is now working with them occasionally and Jack did stress how he was trying to change things.
Hehe, he'd definitely change his mind about Torchwood if he knew Rose was working for the parallel one!
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 06:20 pm (UTC)I'd see it more as defense of others/self-defense than the death penalty. The death penalty would be after a crime occurs, and there is no longer an immediate threat. With the Master, the danger was ongoing, and the Doctor was risking many lives.
Hehe, he'd definitely change his mind about Torchwood if he knew Rose was working for the parallel one!
He does know that. Rose told him at Bad Wolf Bay. Although, if there's no Doctor in that universe, I don't know how a Torchwood exists!
Personally, I'm waiting for Torchwood to turn out to be a "trap within a trap," like the original Torchwood House in "Tooth and Claw": something that, theoretically, hurts the Doctor but is, ultimately, there to help him.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 06:28 pm (UTC)Hmm, is the Doctor somehow in all universes although there's only one of him? How does that work because he's a bit like a fact, isn't he?
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 09:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-28 04:45 am (UTC)However, I'm watching Torchwood...as always...and it struck me how it's a bit like the last season of Angel except a whole series. Jack takes over this shady, highly powerful, highly influential establishment...like Wolfram & Hart complete with alternate dimensions...and tries to turn it for the good.
I think that's what you were trying to show me before by mentioning Shanshu, but I didn't get it then.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-28 12:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-28 02:05 pm (UTC)But Jack gets to kiss Spike and I don't recall that Angel ever did, hehe. I think I used Buffy or Angel references like 3 or 4 times when Artic asked which season to buy and she hasn't even seen B or A!
The first time I saw an ad for the second episode of Torchwood, I was like, "Malicious sexual entity? Didn't Angel already do this in its first season?" It just seemed so obvious that I had hoped they'd go for something different, but I suppose, like Angel, they had to prove that it was edgier and more adult than the parent show.
I can't wait to see James especially when he says his character is nastier than Spike!