Female Scientists

[ericadawn16]

I'm writing an article this week on the lack of females in science. Do you have any favorite current female scientists in pop culture (2013 and up)? What do you think Hollywood should do to help?

I also asked this question on Facebook and no one can think of any current female scientists in YA literature. I can't think of that many period.

Comments

[dragonbat2006.livejournal.com]

In YA lit? Mrs. (Dr.!) Murray from Madeleine L'Engle's Time Quartet. Janie in Harriet the Spy (okay, she was 11. But she was going to be a scientist when she grew up!). I wonder if A.C. Crispin's Starbridge series would count as YA. It's science fiction with a protagonist in her late teens and the scientists are a mix of men and women.

[betawho.livejournal.com]

River Song is an archeologist in Doctor Who. The Rani is also a scientist, if a mad one, in Classic Who. They also had Zoe, Liz, Nyssa, etc. As well as the heart surgeon Grace Halloway in the 8th Doctor movie, and Martha Jones as a female doctor in training.

There was Dana Skully in X-Files. (I'm noticing a lot of these are medical professionals.) The female doctor on Star Trek Next Generation.

There's Tinker from Wen Spencer's "Tinker" and "Wolf Who Rules" she's a scientific and engineering genius. She invented hoverbikes, and built a warp gate, all while also running a junk yard. Which, according to her, provided her with plenty of used parts and spare time to invent with. (Excellent books, I highly recommend them.)


Hmm. Honestly, recently, there isn't as many as I'd thought. Although I have noticed a sort of backlash against "technical" stuff. It seems it's okay to be a nerd nowadays, but at the same time, so many things seem to have been dumbed down, (fictionwise) as if people are afraid of "sounding too smart." As if it's a bad thing. Go figure.

Technobabble is apparently a bad thing nowadays. Even if it hints at technological possibilities. It either has to be absolutely correct scientifically, or not used at all, with "baby talk explanations" used instead. And apparently it's "not possible" to get "fictionally projected science" correct (since we don't know what future science is yet) so the only "acceptable" alternative is oversimplified and "dumbed down" "non-language" that doesn't mean anything.

So, basically, it's a hard time to be a scientist. Especially in fiction. Especially in Science Fiction.

After all, they killed off Osgood.

[dm12.livejournal.com]

They killed off Osgood, I was really upset about that because she was really good and smart. But it's Doctor Who, so let's wait and see if that's what really happened...

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

May I quote some of your complaints about "dumbing down" and if yes, who may I ascribe it to?
Usually, I put the person's user name and which site they were using.

[betawho.livejournal.com]

Yeah, just credit it to betawho here on Livejournal.

Unless it's for flaming purposes, then I'd prefer not.

Anyway, I had noticed recently that the whole female emancipation thing has sort of just wound down to meaning "a second paycheck" per household, rather than seeing to be very inspirational anymore.

Part of that may be because it succeeded. We don't think anything of women being doctors or lawyers any more, it's no longer odd. But, sadly, nowadays it just feels less like something to aspire to, and more just like "we have to have two paychecks to keep the bills afloat nowadays."

So it can seem like it's less about discovery and intellectual freedom and exploration, and more about just paying the bills. Which, honestly, doesn't really make for very interesting fiction.

Plus, now that I think of it, school loans for scientific training may seem far too high when most women know they won't be making as much as the men, even though their loans will be just as high.

It is odd that there seem to be fewer women in the sciences, other than medical, as I noticed. (But women have always cared for the sick.)

Sometimes it just feels like we're sliding backward.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Since you were concerned about the context, here's what I have so far of that section:

Dumbed Down Female

Now, we can't have females being too smart and competent. It would make the men look bad or maybe we'd be accused of Mary Sue. The comic book companies are the most easily exposed with this. In the comics, Bobbi Morse held a Ph.D. in Biology as well as being a skilled ass-kicker. She should have become BFFs with Jemma Simmons, right? Nope, in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Morse has been given a fear of needles and is strictly a weapons expert. The show has made a hard line that weapons experts use weapons and science experts use science but wouldn't that make a scientist even more exciting to a young mind? That she can create a new element or invent a new device AND save everyone around her if need be? Maybe Skye will be the answer. The season finale a couple of months ago finally had Skye using her new powers as Quake AND her hacking prowess, showing that science could work hand in hand with action, even as a female. DC hasn't always been better either. in 2012, they debuted the animated series of shorts, Super Best Friends Forever, where Wonder Woman and other female superheroes were teenagers. However, this somehow means that there's almost no crime fighting and the young heroes think ideas, like stealing Wonder Woman's invisible jet to get burritos, are totally awesome. Lastly, there's Elena Neves who appeared to be highly skilled in criminal sciences in Fast Five but by Fast & Furious 6 and Furious 7, she was nothing more than a glorified babysitter. Literally, she watched over a baby for almost all of Fast & Furious 6 and missed the climatic battle while watching over a young girl. What happened?

[betawho.livejournal.com]

My "dumbing down" comment was aimed at the audience as a whole, since science itself seems to be seen as something embarrassing or that that "the audience" wouldn't get or wouldn't want to see (regardless of gender, age, ect.)

But you bring up a good point. Somehow, women, regardless of how competent, how intelligent, or how much they have to contribute to a story (or to society) somehow end up not being allowed to stand on their own as individuals, on their own individual strengths, as men do. They, almost inevitably, end up being given some "Female" task or role that is somehow supposed to "define" them.

Whether it's being "the girlfriend" to the main male hero. Or being "the mother" or being someone's "supportive lover" or even just being the one who gets assigned the domestic chores (like keeping the peace, making sure everyone works together, watching the kids, getting the tea, etc.)

There's this odd slant that seems to want women to be "pseudo-men" in that they can kick ass (literally physically fight) but it seems that in almost any other area they are still judged by their "femininity" (and the "kicking ass" part is often just a transplanted "masculinity" since even then they are expected to "fight like men" yet at the same time are actually "not allowed" to fight like men. (My main example was how, in Hercules and Xena, Hercules was simply allowed to punch a guy out, but when it came time for Xena to, she had to run up a tree, do a backflip, and kick him in the nose. Or do some other "unbelievable" gymnastic maneuver that somehow made it "okay" that a woman was actually "fighting" by making it so unbelievable that it just became a moment of style, rather than a fight.

It's like men are scared of a woman who could actually just haul off and deck them. So they dress it up in miniscule costumes and fancy gymnastics.

Women are allowed to be "smart" as long as it doesn't impinge on their "femininity." Basically, it seems to be more important (in the media at least) that women are "pretty and appealing" than intelligent. Very often, if a woman is portrayed as being very intelligent, she is also portrayed as being a frump, a nerd, and physically unappealing.

Yet if a woman is both intelligent and sexually appealing, she is often the "vamp" or some sort of predator that uses her intelligence and sexiness "against" men.

Just being an intelligent, sexy, kickass, and accomplished female, who just happens to be an individual, seems harder for the media (TV shows, movies, fiction, etc.) to get their heads around. At least when there are men in the story she needs to relate to. (She can be as smart and sexy as she wants with other girls, but apparently being "female" trumps being "intelligent" whenever males are involved. Unless she's expected to "conquer" him in some way.

The biggest recent example of this that bothers me, is the depiction of Natasha Romanoff in the Avengers 1 and 2.

I loved, absolutely loved, that in the first movie Natasha was depicted as both sexy, intelligent, and kickass. It was so refreshing to see a female character that was allowed to stand on her own two feet as equal to the males, without having to "surrender" either her sexiness, or her intelligence to do so.

Then in the second Avengers movie, she suddenly becomes the Hulk's girlfriend and ends up with "relationship issues" to take all her time. And suddenly she's the girlfriend.

It bugged me.

Part 2, my response was too long.

[betawho.livejournal.com]

Likewise, it bothered the heck out of me in the original new Star Trek movie when they only have one main female character, Uhura, and suddenly she is apparently boinking Spock. (And doing "talented" things with her tongue.)

It drove me crazy, not only because it totally missed what was so interesting about the original Spock and Uhura's relationship, but it just felt like they had this token female in the cast and couldn't figure out what to do with her, so they made her "the girlfriend."

Even though Uhura's incredibly intelligent and technically trained, the "important" thing about her, the one the show spends the most attention on, is her status as a man's "side character."

So, it isn't so much that women are "dumbed down" as, for some reason, (probably due to the vast majority of TV, movie, and comic book writers being male) their main "function" is to "be female." Completely aside from how intelligent, accomplished, or "individual" they are as individuals.

Almost inevitably, in any long running series that includes men and women, no matter how "independent" or "individual" a woman may be at the beginning, she will almost inevitably end up as "the girlfriend."

Heck, even Dana Skully.

And, one thing that really gripes my cookies, is even with all the DC and Marvel superhero movies being made, Wonder Woman still only gets a "side billing" in the Superman and Batman movie. No movie of her own, just a side role in "the guys'" movie.

(And we've had, what? Four Spiderman movies, 3 Hulks, numerous other Marvel avenger movies. But no women. Unless they were part of a "team" [Fantastic Four, Avengers] and even then vastly outnumbered by the men, and often a "girlfriend" to one of them.)

By the way, I did love Pepper Potts when she finally kicks some ass in IronMan 3. She was awesome. But even there, it's shown as mostly a matter of the side effects of her being given "superhero" serum. The rest of the time, she's either IronMan's secretary, or his "girlfriend." Although, I do think Pepper holds up better in some regards than others, she's intelligent, strong, and doesn't put up with his guff. So she comes off more as an "individual" who happens to be in a relationship. Rather than just "the woman."

By the way, talking about female superheroes, I saw the trailer to the "Supergirl" TV series trailer, and wanted to put my fist through the screen. Virtually everything we are shown about Supergirl is about how she's a "girl" and how she relates to "Superman" the man. She's even pushed around, left in a dead end job, and generally feels like the "girl/girlfriend sidekick" who somehow got her own show just because she had superpowers.

It's much the same way that I watched the first season of Buffy, then decided not to watch any more when the kickass girl "hero" in that deliberately decided to stay "dumb" and be an airhead. On purpose.

Talk about deliberate dumbing down.

And, (I'm not sure of this, since I didn't watch the rest of the series, this is only what I get from discussions and the little hints I've seen) most of the rest of the season, while Buffy does end up being intelligent, most of the stories still focus that intelligence on "relationship issues" a "female domain."

I'm fairly sure she didn't do "science."

Re: Part 3, because it's still too long.

[betawho.livejournal.com]

So, yeah, if given the option of a female who is scientifically intelligent, they seem to opt to "make her an unattractive geek that no man would date" or "let her be intelligent, but focus all her attention on the men and her "emotional" life."

Letting a woman be intelligent, kickass, and NOT obsessed with "girl stuff" like "emotions/relationships/family" etc. seems to not be an option.

Apparently women can't see past their emotions, no matter how intelligent or rational they are. And if they can, they are somehow seen as "not feminine." (You often get really intelligent and rational "bitches" who may be beautiful, but are considered "unattractive" because their "intelligence" is seen as "too hard." Or perhaps their unwillingness to let their "softer emotions" do their thinking, makes them somehow, "not female." They always tend to come off as weirdly sexless, even while they can be sexual predators. It's a weird dichotomy.)

So, maybe it's not so much a matter of "dumbing down" women, as, somehow, technical or scientific intelligence being somehow seen as "not feminine."

Re: Part 2, my response was too long.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

I ended up not using Uhura because I couldn't find a specific scientific field she was skilled in.

DC is still giving Wonder Woman a movie (2017) before Marvel gives Captain Marvel a film (LATE 2018)...but honestly, LEGO! had Wonder Woman on screen first which is just sad.

Actually, I do give DC kudos on Suicide Squad because they should have two females with Ph.Ds if done correctly.

I would have loved to mention Pepper but I couldn't find a way of proving she was an expert at sciences.

Supergirl will get her own column next week because I have to track down the pilot...everyone says that everything is better in context and the second trailer was better...but I still have my doubts.

I watched every season of Buffy. She was never supposed to be smart at traditional science. her creator, Joss Whedon, felt sorry for all the idiot blonde girls in the horror films of his youth and wanted a stupid blonde who could win and save all the guys instead of the reverse. Buffy does end up pretty good at psychology and military science but without any papers to show for it.

Willow would be more disappointing because she was the scientist but once she become a witch, the science fell by the wayside since being a witch was more fun for her.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

"t's like men are scared of a woman who could actually just haul off and deck them."

You just reminded me to include Hope van Dyne, thank you.

I split off the majority of fictional female scientists into slightly different categories:
The Quirky Assistant,
The Aloof Genius,
The Taken for Granted Medical Examiner,
The Girlfriend,
the Dumbed Down Female or
It's Okay if You're Young

[dragonacesg7.livejournal.com]

pop culture that's current? Jemma Simmons from Agents of SHIELD. (and don't know about the AoS comics after the relaunch but she is in that too not just the series)

Was Dr. Cho from Age of Ultron young? I don't know her age.

Caitlin Snow from the Flash (she works in STAR labs)

there's a medical examiner in Gotham but I think she's in her 30s.

hollywood needs to have more of them and NOT as main character love interests

Not sure if all of them are post-2013, but they are roughly contemporary:

[http://users.livejournal.com/__marcelo/]

There was Beverly Katz in Hannibal (FBI forensic scientist and badass; killed by eponymous cannibal).

I know there were female scientists in Helix, but I didn't watch the series.

Two characters in The Big Bang Theory.

Molly Hooper in Sherlock.

I think Cosima in Orphan Black.

The eponymous character in Bones (although this is pre-2013 definitely).

Abby in NCIS (again, forensic scientist - but then, that's what most scientists in TV work on, really).

Definitely old: Fred in Angel

Dr Shearing in The Bourne Legacy

Jane Foster in the Thor movies.

Alice Morgan in Luther

Helen Magnus in Sanctuary (pre-2010, I think).

Kavita Rao in Marvel 616 (I guess that's gone now...)

Susan Storm in Ultimate Marvel (ditto).

Valeria Richards, although she's too young for that to be a profession.

Moira MacTaggert, also in Marvel (dunno if still current).

Pamela Isley/Poison Ivy in some of DC's continuities.

She didn't apply it in her job, but The Avengers' Emma Peel, IIRC, was (among other things) a physicist. (Alright,I definitely slipped way back into the last century.)

Not many, definitely, and rarely in the same narrative role of their male colleagues.

I can think of few better role models than Helen Magnus; I'm very biased toward the character, but she owned her series exactly as much, if not more, as male protagonists usually own theirs, and their depiction of the research process (granted the ridiculous things going on in her universe) was relatively sane. She helped everybody she could, killed everybody she had to, did proper research, coordinated a huge organization, kept warily kicking around her psychologically unstable ex-husband, and not once fell into any of the usual tropes. Emulating her might not be a realistic life goal (please ignore that it's one of mine), but I wish we had more women like her in popular culture. Not just helpful-science or bundle-of-characters-trait-science, but science-as-power (but then, we do have a shameful imbalance of (personally/politically) powerful female characters in general, which I guess is part of the reason).

[thespian15.livejournal.com]

Is the one character on AGENTS of Shield considered a scientist?
Hugs, Jon

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

Gillian Andersons character in Hannibal is a psychologist, which counts as a science.

Likewise Dr Alana Bloom.

The lady scientist in The Last Ship whose name I forget is pretty awesome too.

Defiance has a female alien doctor who is awesome.

[dm12.livejournal.com]

Dr. Mayim Bialik, who plays Dr. Amy Fowler on Big Bang Theory, actually has a PhD in neuroscience. So it's not just that she plays a neuroscientist, she is one! What an example to youth....

The title of her PhD thesis is: Hypothalamic Regulation in Relation to Maladaptive, Obsessive-compulsive, Affiliative, and Satiety Behaviors in Prader-Willi Syndrome, in 2007, University of California. Los Angeles (UCLA). Not bad!

[quadratur.livejournal.com]

Penelope Garcia - Criminal Minds (okay, she was supposed to be a hacker but I guess she also has a background in Computer Science)
Abby Scuito - NCIS - Forensics
Dr. Kate Wilding - Midsumer Murders- Medical Examiner
FBI Agent Avery Ryan (Ph.D)- CSI Cyber - Psychologist
Dana Scully - X-Files - Medicine/Medical Examiner
Dr. Joan Watson - Elementary - Medicine (no longer practicing)
Dr. Jane Foster - Thor - Physicist
Dr. Loretta Wade - NCIS NoLa - Medical Examiner (older)
Temperance Brennan - Bones - Forensic anthropologist
(Bones has several female scientists: Dr. Camille Saroyan (ME), Daisy Wick, Jessica Warren)
Jemma Simmons - Agents of Shield - Biochemistry
Lanie Paris - Castel - ME
Cosmia Niehaus - Orphan Black - medicine? genetics?
Orphan Black has several female researchers and scientists in supporting roles

Martha Jones - Dr. Who/Torchwood - Medicine-student
Toshiko Sato - Torchwood - technical expecrt, probably computer science
River Song - Dr. Who - archaeology
There are more on Who and Torchwood. I just can't remember the names.

SG1 and SGA of course had a ton of female scientists, most notably Sam Carter. Same with Star Trek TNG, DS9, and Voyager. And with the whole CSI franchise.

Can't help with YA lit since I don't read it. There are a tons of crime novels with female medical examiners and forensic anthropologists though.

[i-llbedammned.livejournal.com]

Seeing female scientists in Hollywood will give young girls a model. I am glad that they made Jane and Darcy both scientists in Thor, for example, because even though they were not the main characters it still gave them power and a purpose beyond "Well Jane is dating Thor and Darcy is wacky". I am also a big fan of Jemma Simmons because she routinely shows that she can run with the boys and even surpass them.

Also what do you consider a scientist? Are social sciences like psychology counted or only "hard" sciences like biology or chemistry?


Female scientists in YA literature are a bit hard, especially because a lot of YA lit involves magical themes rather than scientific. Like Hermione Granger is brilliant, but also a witch not a scientist.

[dhampyresa.livejournal.com]

YOKO TSUNO! She's an electrical engineer of Japanese and Chinese descent who is either French or Belgian (do not have books to check right now) and has amazing adventures in time and space. the series' been ongoing since the 60s, but the latest album came out last month so it's still current.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

She's sounds like the most awesome person ever and I wondered, how could this person not have been in my life before?

Her books weren't begun to be translated into English until 2007 and even by now, only TEN of her books have been translated into English.

*rage*

PS Thank you so much for telling me about her, I'll be tracking down what little I can find...and probably practicing my French when that's over.

[dhampyresa.livejournal.com]

She was my hero growing up, ngl, and I still want to be her when I grow up.

In fairness, 10/27 is over a third, but still.

Do let me know what you think, because I am always up for talking about Yoko!

[indiwise.livejournal.com]

OH. You want fictional ones? LOL - I was going to suggest Carolyn Porco...*embarrassed

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Hey, that's the way it should be, right?

But from what I've seen and experienced myself, a young person usually has to get excited about a science field through a fictional character before they track down the real ones doing the same thing.