Day 19 - Favorite Elizabeth scene

[ericadawn16]

Day 19 - Favorite Elizabeth scene

It's when Elizabeth saves James in Tortuga. It's kind of debatable what Elizabeth's true feelings are before that point. She calls him James, says how he's a fine man and she would go through with the marriage but you can't tell how much is honesty and how much is manipulation to make sure Will is saved. However, in Tortuga, she recognizes James despite the scruffiness AND recognizes the suicidal mood he's in and she saves him from getting himself killed that night. Then, she could have walked away but she finds where they threw him out and is honestly saddened by the whole situation, plus, the way she touches him here.

I think she really did love James but not in the same way that she loved Will.

Comments

[ghanima-007.livejournal.com]

Did she love Will or image of him that she created in her mind that was not who Will really was? She wanted freedom to do what she wants and that included adventure and sexual exploration. It was pointed out she was a modern girl stuck in 18th century. But Will wasn`t the man who gave her freedom. Quite the contrary, he bound her in celibacy and living a quiet life as a single mother which is exactly the kind of life she tried to escape. So at the end of AWE, she has a twisted, unnatural version of marriage because her husband is a severed heart in the box, not a man.

And like in a bad romcom where a career woman dumps it for some dopey dude, she abandoned the life she wanted to have, as the Pirate King/Lord/whatever, to do the very thing she dreaded - an ordinary, unremarkable life. Not even in order to be with her husband but to wait for him. For a decade. And by waiting, they don`t mean modern version where she can have relationships or at least sex for the sake of satisfying this natural drive or any kind of fun. No. They meant it in the Dark Ages/Inquisition Era way, that she had to live like a nun, away from temptation (hence why she says goodbye to BP crew and life of adventure). So the girl who dreaded the corset (figuratively and literaly), ended up with an invisible chastity belt because her "true love" did not set her free from the obligation to wait. Quite the contrary, he created the obligation. That`s not freedom but inprisonment.

OTOH, who sets her free in more ways than one, or as Rose DeWitt-Bukater (Titanic) would say "saved me in every way a person can be saved"? Norrington. He set her free from her promise to marry him so that she can be with the man of her choosing. Then he set her free from the prison, not only her but also her pirate breathren whom he used to hunt, so that she can be free to a) live, b) be a pirate since that`s her choice, c) presumably go to the man of her choice, be it Will, Jack or someone else, d) defeat dictatorship. Moreover, he died for her freedom. Will not only didn`t die but he dragged her down with him because when he got cursed, she didn`t have to be cursed with him. Now you will say, But it`s her choice to wait. And I will say, a real man who trully loved her would tell her not to wait because she should have a normal life. Move on. Live. Don`t wait. If she waited regardless, than fine. But he had to tell her not to and he didn`t. That`s not freedom. Norrington gave her freedom, Will took it away. Mind you, Will is a good man but his desire to have a happy ending clouded his judgement about how it will affect her. OTOH, Norrington forsakes his happy ending so that she could have one. That`s a difference between a boy and a man, and I don`t have to tell you which one is which.

So when you think about it, she wants a man who gives her freedom and Norrington gave her freedom and even his life so she can have all freedom in the world. She loves such man and he is that man. Problem is, she won`t see that he is that man she loves. It`s as if Scarlett never awoke up to the fact that Rhett was the man she loved because he was everything she wanted in a man, and continued to "love" Ashley who was not all that but she kept pinning those atrributes on him. IMo, it`s because Elizabeth never grew into a woman. She remained a girl who found pining for her first love self-sufficient. And lets face it, she and Will never had a relationship since they spent most of their time separated. So it was really chasing after a moon. She wants him because she can`t have him (something always comes between them - social standing, arrest, curse) so instead of getting to know each other, prolonged separation feeds their fantasy images of who they are and pining becomes the reason why their obsession/love/whatever survives. 100% dreams and 0% reality.

POTC is very subversive story. You can read it in many different ways but one thing is sure, it isn`t clean cut. You won`t find many people who will agree that Elizabeth made the right choice in the end (or who the choice should be) and I think that`s exactly how T&T wanted it.

Sorry for the long post. I`m very passionate about this subject but there aren`t many opportunities for discussion. :)

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I never bought into that she does nothing but care for Will, Jr in between those two scenes, Even the writers said she went on other adventures, we just don't get to see them. They even said how she goes to the Land of the Dead to visit Will, etc. and they did say etc. which I saw as code for "James" since the canon Disney books left a loophole that anyone who refuses Jones gets sent to the Locker. This means that Elizabeth could go to the Land of the Dead to visit Will and find out he's rescued James from the Locker. Then, she, James and the the child all go off into the living again.

We just don't know what she's been up to in between. Yeah, she's wearing a traditional feminine outfit, but that might just be her trying to look nice for when Will comes back.

It's already been established, she's a modern girl trapped in the past so to speak so she's not going to let cultural norms dictate what she does.

[ghanima-007.livejournal.com]

I think that the writers made that one up on a fly when all the fangirls went into hysterics. It was obvious that she abandoned life of adventure cause why leave BP and Empress if you want to continue with adventures, no? especilaly since she wanted to be a pirate. Also, her clothes from the end of the movie cannot possibly be just "wanna look nice for Will". More likely, she has a milk farm or something. As for going to the Land of the Dead,lmao! There is nothing in the movies that support the claim that she could visit Will or anyone there. They just contradict themselves. They say a scene was deleted where it is explained that Will will be free if she is faithful to him. Yet they never provided an actual dialog from the script which I take as that it was never written. They gave the whole dialog for Accepting the Proposal, for example, and the deleted scene was included on DVD and blue. However, no deleted scene about curse-lifting pops up in 7 Disk. I call bull on this. They had to do damage control when negative reactions started and thus copped out.

Moreover, the main theme of AWE score is called One Day. And that CotFD can step on the land for one day only was repeated to oblivion in DMC and AWE. So One Day it is. She didn`t visit and he didn`t get free after 10 years. I`m sorry but movies are clear on that. Not to mention that his heart is removed from his body so he cannot be normal or human or whatever after 10 years. Makes no sense. It could have worked had he been intact but with heart surgery, it`s a huge plot hole.

Finally, Calypso is from Greek Mythology and the whole Land of the Dead plus CotFD as a ferrier of souls borrows heavily from Greeks. Following that source, James couldn`t possibly end up where other souls such as Governor, pirates,etc go because he is a warrior. Warriors especially really brave ones which he is (he not only gave his life for others but rejected the offer of corrupt immortality) go to Elysseum. And Elizabeth being a weekend warrior but not a real one like soldiers couldn`t go there because it`s the place for the chosen ones. Like Norse Valhalla. Only the bravest warriors are admitted and Norrington`s two final acts of bravery coupled with his lifetime of it fit the bill perfectly.

I`m just saying that the whole modern girl trapped in 18th century was distroyed once Will asked her to wait for him and she obeyed. That`s in the movie. That`s canon. She didn`t let cultural norms dictate what she does but that was possible when she had Norrington to set her free to do what she wants. Will took away her freedom. I`m sorry but she clealry abandoned pirate life. I dunno of what adventure T&T spoke but for 99% of people who saw the movie that`s what it is because only 1% read T&T statement on their site. And what`s canon for majority should be canon for everyone. If they wanted a different message, they should`ve written a different script.